Interview Transcript

Interview Date: 02 June 2020

Interviewer: Dr. Justin D Shanks

Interview Participant: Sabrina Rubich

 

JS [00:00:00] To get started, it is just a little bit of a background, so could you tell us who you are, what you do uh professionally, what you do in your free time? Just if you are going to give us a bit of a bio, uh how would you do that? 

 

SR [00:00:12] About me. Um I am Sabrina Rubich. I am a mom of two lovely boys and I live here in Billings, Montana. Um I, oh gosh, I'm a member of the LGBT community. I have a wife who is transgender. And so that's also been really near and dear to my heart. Um I am an advocate with Mount Peck, which is in Montana no kid hungry. They've, you know, welcomed me with open arms to be one of their advocates, which I'm super excited about and so again that's also another passion project of mine as well. Um, I currently work customer service, or customer care for Hello Fresh. That's been I work from home. That's been my job lately since Covid hit. I lost my previous job because of health reasons and they wouldn't let me work at home. So here I am. So uh yeah, mostly my free time is chasing two small boys and because I have a four year old and a two year old, so they take up a lot of my time. When I'm not chasing them, I'm usually found in the backyard, in my garden. That's usually where I'm at. 

 

JS [00:01:19] Awesome. Great. Thank you. Yeah. And are you originally from Billings? 

 

SR [00:01:25] So I was. Um I consider myself from Billings originally. Um I born in California and had a bunch of health problems and my mom was like, you know what, we're going for fresh air and picked Billings. And um I did all my schooling here. So I mean, I went K through, you know, I graduated high school here, went to college here and met my spouse here. So, yeah, I'm pretty much a Montana kid all in all.

 

JS [00:01:50] Okay, great. That's perfect. So that leads us to the next question. So uh since you have lived in Billings for so long, uh I just want you to imagine for a moment that uh I'm a friend. I'm thinking about moving to Billings. Uh how would you describe Billings to me? What's it like to live there? What's challenging? What's great? And how has Billings changed over the period of time that you've lived there? 

 

SR [00:02:12] Yeah. So Billings is eclectic. Um I mean, you have everything from oh gosh what they would consider hipsters to, um you know, business people, doctors. Um oh gosh um older folks. It kind of just I mean, it's a it's a really diverse mix of people that you don't just find one demographic of people here in Billings, to be completely honest. I mean, there's so many different cultures. And I mean, we've got Greek schools and we've got Hebrew schools and we've got, you know, the Mexican um yeah the Mexican festival that happens every year. Like it's it's just a super eclectic group of people, which is really fun. And it's, you know, it keeps things interesting because you never know what events are going to pop up. It's a it's a live music hub. Um I mean, I don't consider us a college town, even though we have two colleges here. So it's it doesn't feel like a college town. It's kind of one of those towns where a lot of people they come um they might come for college or they come for other reasons and they end up just staying. I have moved away from Billings a total of five times in my life since the age of 18, and I've come back every single time. It's just it kind of it's a bigger city, but it's still has, but in those neighborhoods, it has that small town feel where you know your neighbors and um you can you know, there's kids walking down the street, you know, going down the street or going to the park. And it's it's just really it's relatively um it's relatively safe overall. Um there are pockets of crime and such, but I mean, that's where you're gonna find it anywhere. There's nowhere that's absolutely perfect, to be completely honest. And if there is, there's some there's something else going on in the water like that's just straight up. That's what's going on. Um I mean, we got a we have a fence. We've got fairs. Um I mean, it honestly just depends on um you know what you're looking for; Billings is kind of the oyster because you could go from here to um ya know, to Bozeman in driving distance. Like we're not we're not cut off from anywhere, which is really, really nice, um you know, to deal with. I mean, the biggest pull is the hospital, the hospital employs like everybody, it seems like. So that or the college like those are like the top two pulls um that are here in Billings, to be completely honest, which I mean, I don't blame them. They're the biggest thing that we have here, you know, so it kind of just depends. Um there's it's an eclectic group of people, to be completely honest. We're kind of in that weird little there's farmland like in town and you're like, wait a minute. Like what? There's horses in town. Like, what is this? And then of course you have other pockets where it looks like your classic suburban, you know, like your like yeah your suburbs. So it's it's just this weird little it's it's kind of quirky, you kind of just depends. You can tell where those new the new pockets are that have just started up because they're just all kind of cookie cutter. And then, you know, the older places because like there's farmland, there's like house, house, farmland, house, two other patches of farmland and another house  like later down the way. So it's just it's kind of a quirky mix. And there's a lot of really there's really great historical features here. It's a town that's been around for a long time. And um I mean, I kind of like going um I got to go through my own hometown as a teenager and go to all the historical kind of touristy things. And it was a lot of fun to get to learn a whole lot. And, you know, there's Lewis and Clark Trail stuff. So like it's definitely like a history buffs dream to just kind of chill out up in this area, especially yeah. 

 

JS [00:06:05] So. So thinking about the historical components of Billings, the quirkiness and the mixed uses, the farmland, the suburbs, the the more downtown type of environments, um over the time that you've lived there, what have you noticed in terms of changes that have occurred in Billings as a community? 

 

SR [00:06:25] It's gotten a little it's boomed like out of like I want to say it was probably the same time as like the Bakken oil boom. We're the closest big city. So we have these guys who are bringing their families up. They're dropping their families off here, and they're going to work on the oil field for two weeks and then they're coming back. So all of a sudden, I mean, I went from a class of being in oh gosh, I think we went from having like twenty to twenty one in a classroom in high school to like there's twenty five or twenty six of us packed in one room because that was just the growth of people. I have two younger siblings who are eleven and twelve now and so they've been in that; they went to school in the oil boom. So we went, they went from classes of kindergarten and first grade where you made when I was there was like 20 kids at most. Like, there were no more than that. And then now my siblings were in classrooms of twenty nine, thirty kids in the classroom. We've built two more schools. They built like two more middle schools and another elementary school. It's intense. Like we've just we've grown so much over the years, which has it's been really interesting to see. Um and we're we've almost absorbed Laurel, which is like a 15 minute drive to the west. We've almost absorbed them completely because you to get to one of the new middle schools, you practically have to drive to Laurel to get there. Um and it's yeah, it's like we've got three Wal-marts now, which I think is well, I mean, we have two Wal-marts, but we have Laurels now, too, which is closer to the west end. We've practically absorbed another city in this process. It's it's intense on how much it's grown, but it's also opened up a lot of doors for great bands and great, you know, concerts to come through, um which I know is a big moneymaker for the city and everything like that. So it has opened up a lot of doors, you know, for a lot of fun to come through as well. But it's also opened up a lot of doors for for like crime and other things like that. So it's been it's been one of those things that, you know, again, I don't want to say it's where you live because crime could be anywhere, but it has opened up a lot of different pockets of, oh, we didn't have this problem before and now we do. 

 

JS [00:08:49] So it sounds like you've seen a lot of different changes. Uh some great, some less than great. But a lot of growth definitely in your time in Billings. 

 

SR [00:08:58] Oh, yes. Yes. I've been here since I've lived in Billings since about oh gosh we moved up here in 2001. So and I did I started school in 2001 and I graduated in 2013. So I've been I've been here for a very long time. 

 

JS [00:09:14] Sure, yeah. So now that we we understand a little bit uh more about you, Sabrina and Billings as a community, I want to shift our conversation to talking about information, accessibility so the practices and decisions that you make regarding the information that you access. 

 

SR [00:09:31] Yeah. 

 

JS [00:09:32] So the first question is, how do you receive your news? 

 

SR [00:09:38] Well, so I'm kind of an odd duck, I guess so I'm twenty five so I'm twenty five years old, so born in ninety four. So I grew up in this weird little I called myself weird because I grew up in this little kit and caboodle of I remember a time before the Internet. I know that like and then of course it was like that weird chilling robot call that would to get onto the Internet. Like I I mean, mostly like I like reading the newspaper. I'm an odd duck. I I learned that was something my my first grade teacher instilled in us was the newspaper. Um she had us go through and pick out cool articles that we might not have fully understood, um but then we would talk about them and she instilled a love of the newspaper and everything. So I have a love of paper, which is weird, um especially for my for my age group, cuz I'm technically considered a youngin. Um I just I find the Internet to be a little it's overwhelming sometimes. Like, there's so much out there, there's so much and there's just so much information to kind of you to kind of weed through it to be able to even find the news. Um I still watch the local news from time to time. I've got the apps on my phone so that I access the local stuff. Um but other than that, to be completely honest, I'm not like I don't I don't go to the Internet for for the news unless it's like an interesting article about, you know, something that affects, you know, like LGBTQ or um food resources, which is another, you know, food resources and things like that um that it kind of affects, you know, my advocacy work. Um but other than that, I'm I'm kind of I kind of stick in my own little bubble sometimes because there's just I feel like um I just need a new station that just tells me how it is. I feel like there's there's some things that go one way to the right and there's some that go way to feel like one way to the left. And it's like I just kind of, can you just give me the news in the middle? Like, let's not put the personal opinions on it like can we just get the news, please. That'd be great. 

 

JS [00:11:50] So following up on that. So if you're predominantly reading your news via the newspaper. So first question is, which newspapers are you reading for for local news? Regional news? National, global? And then um are those the sources that are giving you the news as it is rather than, as you said, a slanted to one direction of the spectrum or the other?

 

SR [00:12:17] I mean, there's so it's the Billings Gazette is the one that I mostly read here. My grandmother gets it every morning. Um and that's who we live with is my grandmother. Um and yeah, we get the newspaper every morning. And I mean, it seems to be pretty straightforward on how it is. Like, you can tell that there's that depending on the writer, you can kind of tell who's going to lean a little bit more one way or the other, but overall, I mean, it's they tend to stick pretty straightforward as it is, which which is nice because then I don't have to I have to wade through the extra stuff. I can just kind of okay, this is cool. This is what's going on. This is what you know, this is a part of my focus, you know, with with my other pro my other stuff that I'm a part of, you know, or, you know, things that those things also affect this locally as well. So I can kind of just wade through it and I don't have to waste too much time trying to figure out if this is fake, if this is real or, you know, hey, click this box to go to here. And it takes me to a whole nother down the whole nother rabbit hole. Yeah. So. 

 

JS [00:13:22] Definitely and what about uh face to face or oral communication of news. Do you chat with anybody to get news about local events perhaps?

 

SR [00:13:29] Um sometimes. So I mean I listen to the radio at times too. I'm, it just kind of depends if I'm driving around in the car to get local news and stuff. I know how 1019, um the Big J Show. I've been listening to the Big J Show since I was like um probably a pre-teen. So like I want to say like eleven or twelve at the earliest. Um lately on all the stuff that I know he has been doing a lot of um Corona updates and things like that, but he's been taking them straight off the CDC website um and he's just like, look, he's like, I'm getting this off. He's like I mean, he's honestly he's he's honest about it. He's like, look, I am not a professional. I am not a doctor. I don't know nothing about nothing. This is what I am being told. And this is what I'm telling you. I don't I don't I don't pretend to be, you know, a person who knows all about this. You know he's like this is just what I'm finding. And this is what I've been told by other doctors in our community. And um like he has done interviews with tons of other doctors here at from Billings Clinic, from St. Vincent's. Um there was a couple um oh gosh the guys that are working at the oh gosh I think they're in the University of Montana, like they're working on the Covid stuff um brought those in brought some of those guys in for interviews. So, like, he's he's he just is taking a step back and he's just going 'look, I'm not a pro. I don't know what,' he's like 'I'm not a pro. I'm not I'm not a I'm not a you know, a guy that study has spent all of my life studying this.' He goes, 'I'm an entertainer, but here's the people that know more about this that I'm going to get you in touch with,' which has been kind of been super awesome because um you don't find that a lot with radio shows anymore. A lot of the time they're broadcasted in from somewhere else, which so like this is our local one that has been around for a long time, which is really, really nice to hear. Um I went to school with oh gosh the other the co-hosts of that show. I went to school with his little brother. So it's like I mean I know these people, so they're really they're really nice people, too, so which is great as well. It kind of builds that sense of community. Um and he op he opens the floor to debate on his app, which is um not something that a lot of radio hosts will do, is open up the floor. And he's willing to talk about, you know, these sorts of things as well. So I I mean, I guess I'm just I'm weird because I like I mean I like the straightforwardness of it. That's the honest that's the honest truth of it. If I if it gets a little too political, I might change the station. But um other than that, it has been um I mean, I just I like I I like to be told as it is, if this is the news and this is what's going on and this is what it is. Not trying to spin it or put your view on it. You know, I just I like it straightforward. I guess I'm weird that way. 

 

JS [00:16:25] Nice. No not at all. So if I understand what you're saying correctly it sounds like some of the key attributes for your desired news sources are honesty, transparency, straightforwardness. You know you're familiar either personally or you know community-wise with the sources. Yeah, that's that's great. So you mentioned a little bit about your previous experiences with like the radio program, for example. But I want you to think about think back a little bit and if you can,  try to recall your earliest memory of listening or watching or reading the news. 

 

SR [00:17:01] One of the I guess and this one sticks out in my mind, and it's because I just it's it sticks out in my mind because it is a I mean, the pivotal portion in American history, which is so strange because I lived through it. Not all my siblings, my my younger siblings that are 11 and 12 now, they interviewed me, which made me feel super old. I remember being in my first grade classroom watching the attack on 9/11 on the Today Show. Um that it was my my other grandmother's birthday. I remember wishing her a happy birthday on the phone and all the sudden the screen turned to what was going on. And we really didn't know, like I was kind of freaking out because my dad, my my dad was living in New York at the time and was working two and a half blocks away from the World Trade Center. So my panic I mean, I was so I mean, six or seven at this point. About six at this point and so my earliest memory is seeing that that plane, that seeing you know things on fire um and then watching the second plane hit in my first grade classroom. And finally, finally getting through to my dad on a text message. So, of course, you know, flip phones and whatnot. My mom had called their school and told me that my dad had sent a text saying that he was okay and he was okay. And so it was like, okay, Dad's okay. Second plane hit and we're sitting there just dumb. I just remember sitting there with a bunch of other kids just dumbfounded because we had no idea at this point what was going on, what was happening. This was the first time we also got to watch TV in the classroom because my teacher was again a very big proponent on having the newspaper there. She would order newspapers from the Gazette. So we each had our own newspaper in the morning and we were to go through and like highlight words we didn't know. It was a first morning that we didn't even touch those papers. We were glued to the TV. Um and I mean, it's it's still something that sticks out in my head, like every time they have it on, like, you know, on that anniversary, my brain just goes back to I'm sitting in that classroom again. And it's strange. Yeah. And it's strange because I have friends who were with me in that classroom who are now serving in our military because of that moment um in history. So it's that is probably my biggest that's probably the most memorable moment that I have in my like in my childhood, like my earliest moment of um that most like it's a pivotal moment because, I mean, I probably could think of moments before, but it none stick out to me as much as that. At that point, I remember sitting there feeling dumbfounded, going what happens next? Because we didn't know. 

 

JS [00:20:00] Definitely a very, very vivid memory, obviously, for both national history, as personal history uh and, you know, news and information. 

 

SR [00:20:11] Oh, yeah. 

 

JS [00:20:12] So I want you, so thinking from that moment uh when you you're in a classroom, uh watching television, watching news happen on a television trying to, you know, get in contact with a family member. Think about that. And I want you to think all the way from there to the present day where, you know, you're getting your daily newspapers every morning, you're listening to news on the radio, uh you're maybe occasionally getting some of your news or sharing on the Internet. Yeah. So think about how your access to news and information has changed from that moment to this moment. And kind of talk talk talk through that a little bit. 

 

SR [00:20:50] I think so, like, if I take that moment in history that I have. So a lot of what like, so oh my gosh, we're like I mean, with everything even going on today, like with the riots and things like that, it's like we have so many people there on the ground. So this technology has given us that point of we all have cameras now. It's not just the TV crews that have cameras that can tell us what's going on. We have people that are actually living in these countries and living in these areas and are able to, you know, to send out these videos to say, hey, this is what's going on, wake up. Um I made I mean I have a friend who lives who used to live um in Syria and the whole and she documented her entire journey getting out of Syria um illegally getting out of Syria mind you. She's in Germany now, but um she documented everything um and sent out these videos via Twitter. And it was the probably the most I mean I don't I don't think I mean I count myself lucky for being born in this country, um but some of the things that she went through that she documented, I couldn't imagine it to be completely honest. Like this the but that's the thing is like we don't, how do I put this? Some I hate to say it, but it's like if we just rely on the people with the news, with the big old TV cameras, we don't see the nitty gritty on the ground. How is this affecting people as a as as a human, as, you know, as a human and a person to person? How is this affecting them? Which has definitely changed the game for how you get your news and who do well and it's also opened up the door of who do you believe and how much of this is edited and um or how much of this is staged even because you're seeing things through a whole different lens of being there on the ground. Um and from that person's point of view of no, I was there. I was standing there on the ground. Um and so thinking back to like my earliest memory with like the TV and everything, I mean, they were giving us information as it happened. But it's like if we had that technology then, it would have been insane. The video footage by itself, let alone the sounds and the just the overwhelmingness of people, you know, the emotion of it and everything, because it changes it. Yeah, I mean, like my dad can tell you, like straight up, just completely, he can tell you the creaking of buildings. He can tell you about the sound of bodies hitting the rooftops, like he can tell you like vivid detail about those sounds, which in and because he was there, he was he was two and a half blocks away from it, running as the first tower collapsed. But at the same, but it's like but but I mean, if the video like the video footage that we have today of, you know, things going on or um I mean, technology's changed the game because we can have people, we are our own TV reporters. We can go, 'no, this is actually what happens here.' Um we can we can essentially change the, I mean, I guess how do I put this? Um I feel for a long time, TV stations have kind of controlled the narrative. And now with the enhancements of technology and everything like that, the narrative has become this really intricate fabric of other woven stories of people who have lived this and have who are on the ground there and who are, you know, in these in these pivotal moments um that we might not have access to or even have a camera on when they happen, um which which is intense. 

 

JS [00:25:14] Definitely, yeah. 

 

SR [00:25:14] It's intense because, I mean, for me, living in Montana, especially the things that are happening like, you know, in those in the major cities with these riots and things like that, it's like I'm in Montana, like I am not there in person. And the information that we might have had 20 minutes ago might not be accurate anymore, or the information that's coming out might be controlled by somebody who doesn't want this information to come out. But having friends there who are send, who are posting videos and who are sending, you know, these things into other news sources and everything, who are taking photos of the action and everything, we've all kind of become our own journalists, which is a little bit strange in we've all become kind of amateur journalists I feel like for certain points in our history, whether it be these, you know, views like, you know, whether it be riots, whether it be peaceful protests, whether it be pride month, whether it be posting pictures of your kids on your on your on your Facebook feed, we've all kind of become our own little journalists in our lives. Um it's for me, it's definitely going to be interesting to see, like my sons growing up because they've only grown up with the social media world and they've only grown up with having photos on Facebook and having um their picture taken and yeah we're going to post it or the Snapchat filters and things like that. Like they've only grown up with that, while I remember a time before that. So it's definitely going to be interesting to see, you know, how that does shape them as as people um because it is it's I feel like it's just constantly changing um and it's hard to keep up sometimes. Like, I I completely understand. Like my grandmother, who is like, 'I don't know what this is. Like you need to you need to just. Here, take this. Just take it. Go. I don't know what this is like, how do you do this?' Yeah. So I mean I get it, um but it's I kind of feel like it's put the technologies put our our. It's kind of put the ball into our court to tell our story. No matter what color, you know, what race you are, what you know what color you are, it doesn't matter yeah. It doesn't matter anymore. You can you know, if you're if you don't feel like you're pretty enough for TV, you are now you're a journalist. Congratulations. Here's your phone. You can go out in the real world. 

 

JS [00:27:35] Yes, so to follow up on that a little bit. It sounds like you you do use social media, is that correct? 

 

SR [00:27:40] Oh yeah. 

 

JS [00:27:41] Okay. So could you just talk about which social media platforms you use, why you use them, how you use them? Um yeah I think you've been talking a lot about each one of us being, you know, imbued with technology that allows us to be our own amateur journalist, but maybe talk about how that works through social media for you. 

 

SR [00:28:01] Well, for social media, for me, for social media, it's I use a lot of Facebook, yeah a lot of Facebook, a lot of um I'm I have Twitter. I don't use Twitter very often. I just I feel it's a little weird with the format's weird for me. Um I use a lot of Quora. I'll see. What is it? Let's see. Nope wrong tab. Yeah. Quora Q-U-O-R-A. Um which is, um it's kind of this question asking site so you can kind of post a question and then people who um have those life experiences and things like that can give you advice on this, on this topic, which is super awesome, um especially for for things like LGBTQ things. Like there was I mean, the other day I just responded to a question of she this gal was having problems with her doctor not wanting to give her meds. And I'm like, okay, um just to be sure, you'd need probably need a second opinion. Like you know, if that's what they're doing here for you, um it's just it's one of those things that um you kind of get to answer questions, which is pretty cool. Sometimes you get some really off the wall questions or you get questions based on where you live. Um like, hey, like what is what's the best burger place in Billings or what's the best barbecue place or what's a great time to go. Um and of course, I have to answer those ones of 'it's Mother Nature she she just kind of hates us out here. It can be hot one minute. It could rain we don't know. Just pack accordingly. Good luck.' Um yeah so, I mean, it's definitely um I mean, those are the mostly the apps that I use. I use a lot of Facebook. Um I have family who lives all over. I have I have friends who are who were foreign exchange students in high school that I'm friends with. Um I keep in touch with most of my family members who are in Brazil, um which is great. Um so it's mostly for me a way to keep in touch that I use Facebook for. Um we try to we try to keep in touch because we're all scattered all over the world. I've got a brother who's um he's an electrician on a naval carrier out in the middle of God knows where, um but he that's how he gets Facebook photos of his kiddo who's in Seattle. Um yeah, we're kind of all scattered all over the globe. I've got a sister in um the UAE. Um it's just we're all over the place and so we're never really um it's a nice way to keep in touch with what's going on with everybody um and see what's going on in everybody's life. So it's super, you know, that that's probably my main one that I use is Facebook for sure. 

 

JS [00:30:48] Great. Thank you. So we've talked a lot uh up until this point about the various different places that you get your information and get your news, ya know be that your local uh paper based newspaper or the radio or you get some some family updates and information about social media. So now I want to talk about after you you access that information, after you get that information, how do you analyze it? How do you determine whether or not it's reliable, trustworthy, factual? Um just run us through that process and if that's different with newspaper information versus social media information? Yeah. Talk us through how you determine if if information is reliable. 

 

SR [00:31:28] For sure. So for like newspaper and stuff, I kind of have to go. I go to some newspaper, I read it. I'm going, 'Okay, cool.' I go check um especially especially if it has to do with um oh gosh like oh gosh it's like um like LGBT stuff. Um I usually then go to some of my contacts who are um yeah I usually go to my contacts and in face on Facebook and just be like, 'hey, like, what's going on? Like, what is up with this?' And they usually, like, have another article for me to read um from like the state website or something like that. They're like, 'no, this is what they're talking about. We're fine. Chill, here's this. This is what was taken out of context.' Um so, I mean, it kind of just it honestly depends on the type of information that I'm that I'm reading on there, on the process of it. Um other times I'm looking through Google going 'Is this legit? Like what? What if I just read here off? Like, what is going?' Like, I'm trying to dig for where they got it to be completely honest. Um I kind of have, which sometimes just gets time consuming and I kind of give up sometimes. But other than that I mean, if it's coming from Facebook, it kind of depends on who posted it to be completely honest um on how much I take it just face value of oh, they're having one of those days, okay, or if they're just um yeah. Or I mean and then of course then it's like I'm going through over whether or not I mean how do I put this? Facebook to me is kind of more of um you can express yourself, you can share these articles, you can be like 'oh my God, look at this,' which is awesome. I don't think I feel like it gets um it's kind of like looking at a picture up close, like, you know, you've got the picture, but then it's like, you know, but then it's like, okay then we're gonna back up another step and we're gonna keep backing up another step and back up another step. Or like playing a game of telephone where it just gets kind of taken out of you know out of point and you're like, 'wait a minute, what?' And then by the time you look it up, you're like, 'oh, that is not what was posted at all. Like, holy cow. No, what? I don't even know what this is anymore.' Um yeah. I mean, and that's how I take Facebook is honestly, it's kind of like playing a game of telephone because you're usually taking somebody's post and reposting it and then somebody else is reposting it. Then by the time it gets to your Facebook, like your page that you're scrolling through, it's been shared, like it's been shared, like God knows how many times by that time. So it's hard to take. I mean, it's hard for me to take it at face value of what's going on. I mean, mind you, I do I do follow um my local news sites' like Facebook pages and stuff like that. And I follow like the Montana state website. And I mean, I'm looking for fishing spots right now, so I'm following their site too. So, I mean, it, but like so those sites like I mean, I take that at face value, but it's like some of my friends that are sharing another thing from another friend or like a group and I'm like, 'what kind of craziness is this that they're posting?' It's it's hard to take it at face value when it's, like, shared so many times. I feel like it just it has that disconnect to it like like playing a game of telephone. That is probably not what was posted at all and um 'y'all are just being weird, you're all being crazy,' like

 

JS [00:34:54] So it, sorry to interrupt, it sounds like a lot of the the aspects you talked about earlier in terms of familiarity, honesty, straightforwardness, right, that that applies to newspaper resources, to your social media sources, radio sources, etc.

 

SR [00:35:09] Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

 

JS [00:35:11] Okay. So along those lines in the last couple of years, there's been a lot of attention uh in the news about concepts of post truth or fake news and alternative facts. So, I'm just wondering, have you ever heard of post truth? Have you heard of fake news have you heard of alternative facts? And what what do those things mean to you?

 

SR [00:35:32] So that is it's a game we play at family dinners. Um it we bring we're supposed to come with at least 10 news articles, five fake and five real. And they can be as off the wall like we love the Florida man ones, the Florida man has done X, Y and Z, and we try and that's the thing is we play the game of fake news. Um and so sometimes they're just these crazy, like off the wall articles that people have posted and we have to and it's hilarious because we're only given the the base like we're only given the first page of the article, which is hilarious, to try to have everybody read. And of course I come from a family, I'm the oldest of five. So I'm the oldest of five. Not only that, but it's also I've got cousins and grandparents and like my my spouse's family. So it's it's hilarious with all of us trying to figure out. And we have we have paddles that it's real or fake. Um we just make a game out of it because we never really know, to be completely honest, um if it is fake or real. Um and it's hard to tell because, like, they have just got they've gotten good at making it real um looking to that point um where I have friends on Facebook who, like, believe, like Coronavirus testing is to place trackers on people. And I'm like, 'y'all are nuts.' Like what? No, woah it's like fake news. Like we're just paddle. Like I saw that the other day we had a barbecue on Sunday and one of my siblings brought that one. I was like, oh, my God, that is so fake. Like, we're all holding up our paddles, um but I mean, we we it's hard it's hard to decipher all of that, like some of those ones that we thought were fake. No, no. We were wrong. We were so wrong. Um but it's hard, it's really hard to decipher those. But yeah I try to check my sources. I wrote for the newspaper in high school. I have to check my sources. It's just part of who I am. So if I can find two other credible sites that have the same thing, that's probably true. My like of course for me, I have to go through and reread them those articles that off of those credible sites because for some reason I've noticed that a lot with fake news, they've taken like a like here's your paragraph of the article and they've blown it up to this crazy conspiracy. Um they've just taken it out of proportion essentially. They're like they're only focusing on one certain aspect of it, which causes problems. 

 

JS [00:38:10] So, yeah, that's. Thank you for that explanation and I really like the details about the uh the fake news dinner time. 

 

SR [00:38:17] Oh, yeah. We try. 

 

JS [00:38:18] That sounds great. So what about uh alternative facts? Do you how do you think that relates to fake news? And uh if you think there's a connection, where do you think alternative facts come from? 

 

SR [00:38:31] I'm trying to see and I'm trying to determine like what the the definition of an alternative fact would be. Um and my brain's just not coming up with one to be completely honest. Um yeah, I guess. Like, do you have an example of what an alternative fact would be? 

 

JS [00:38:48] Well, that's actually what I'm hoping to get from you. 

 

SR [00:38:50] Oh, my goodness. 

 

JS [00:38:51] So just first of all, you've heard of the term? Is that safe?

 

SR [00:38:55] No, no, no. It is not a common one that I've heard. I mean, I've heard of um I know I mean I mean, alternative facts could be different points of from like my brain trying to put it together and what it could be. I mean, it could be a different point of view. Like it's like for the same for this, you know, for the same piece in history could be different, just different points of view on what was going on at the time. You know, jeez. Um like my spouse and I have very different points of views on the whole 9/11 thing, like on what was going on. Um so, I mean, I guess there could be different like information out there, but it's strange is my brain is not wanting my my brain's like, 'wait, what?' I'm trying to figure out what it would an alternate what a different, you know, a fact a different fact would be. For my so, like, from what I'm piecing together, it's it's like I mean okay like okay or World War Two, even like Germany's point of view from the allies' point of view, probably same point of history, very different points of views. And I mean, there could be alternating facts out of that, because depending on who what side you were on, you're getting different information. And that's just how it is like.

 

JS [00:40:12] Yeah. Thank you so yeah and it's not for me to prescribe what the definition is. I'm part of the goal with our conversation is right to see how familiar these concepts are because it's something that gets talked about in research, but ya know, I want to know is this something that people across the state understand. So thank you very much. 

 

SR [00:40:31] Yeah. No, it's not one that I am familiar with. Um my brain has just pieced it together as that. So, I mean, yeah it's not it's not one I've heard. Fake news I hear it up and down all the time so, but the other. No, I have no idea to be completely I'm probably gonna look it up after this interview, to be completely honest and be like 'what what what what did I say?' 

 

JS [00:40:52] Thank you. Yeah. So now we're going to shift gears again. Uh we've talked about where you get your information and how you uh how you analyze it, determine it's reliable, trustworthy, etc.. And now I want to talk about uh after you've done those things, how how and why do you share information? So uh big questions. What types of information do you share and how do you decide whether or not to share uh that information? 

 

SR [00:41:19] I guess it depends on it honestly depends on the post for me to be completely honest. Um if it is something that resonates with me, with how I'm feeling, with um what I'm going through, then I'm definitely yeah, that's like a definite reshare for me. Um I mean with my wife being transgender and it being Pride Month and everything, a lot of those posts I'm you know sharing and everything like that as well because it has um it's, you know, it's a part of my life um and everything like that. It has meaning to me um or if it's something funny like I feel like there's I feel like everybody I feel like there's a lot of hate. People focus on a lot of the hate in the world and there's just there's a lot to have there's a lot of joy. There's a lot of funniness in the world. And there's and so if it's funny, I'll share it. There's also some posts where if it reminds me of you, I send it to, like, personally like directly like via messenger and stuff like that. Um but it has to it has to mean something for me. It can't just be some random off the wall, like nonsensical post. Like, it has to mean something to me um and that's the biggest thing. It's also I mean, it's also caused a lot of um minor rifts in my family. Um I have grandparents who are very, very, very far to the right and the fact that I have a transgender wife and two boys has not exactly, they're like, 'wait, what?' Like panic, like they have had to adjust accordingly. And there have been quite a few moments of um 'you're wrong. This is what's going. Whoa, whoa. Where did you get that? No, that's that's not what happens here. This is. No. This is this is actually the reality of it, but okay okay.' And it's kind of a um there can be teachable moments, which is great. So like some articles and stuff like that where it's like, 'hey, it's this cool like DIY hack on how to do something or oh gosh like there was one the other day of um on a baby onesie like to keep their hands out from their diaper or something. Just just take the onesie and just pin it up behind their shoulders so they can't get their arms down and I'm like, 'where was that when I was that. Where was that when I was changing diapers?' Like dude. Like there are some of those things that I post because I have friends who are, who are new moms and I'm like, dude, you got to you got to try this like this. If I would have known this would have saved me so much stuff, so much time. So, I mean, it honestly just has to have a meaning for me. Um I don't post nonsensical stuff um or random, you know, off the wall stuff or passive aggressive stuff. It has to have a meaning for me um and be important to me to to be share-worthy, essentially. So I don't know. 

 

JS [00:44:16] Yeah so. 

 

SR [00:44:16] Yeah I don't share a whole lot of news articles to be completely honest, unless it is something where it's like, 'hey, I'm in this article. Look at this.' Like um I was in for, oh gosh, I had a I was part of an NPR article when the government shut down and food stamps. I was on food stamps at the time with my little guy so there is there was an article that he um I was asked to do um when I was living up in Missoula. And there's photographs of me and my kiddo were walking around the grocery store and um, you know, I'm showing them, you know, so SNAP can only be used for X, Y and Z. And because he had no idea how it worked and stuff. And so, I mean, I shared that news article because I'm like, 'hey, it's about me. I'm in to, look at me.' But um other than that, I mean, I don't share a whole lot of news articles, to be completely honest. It's mostly, you know, funny posts and things like that because I feel like we just focus too much on the bad stuff. The we're missing we're missing out on the good in the world um there's yeah so, like, I guess I guess I do share other news articles, but it's only with the good it's the good ones where it's like um, oh gosh, like, yeah, where it where it's like the good ones, where the feel good ones um that you that you see. So those ones I think we need more of in the world. 

 

JS [00:45:30] Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of your decision to share information and or share select news articles is about uh, you know, whether or not it resonates with you or, you know, resonates with the particular individual or group that you might send it to. 

 

SR [00:45:43] Yes. 

 

JS [00:45:44] So okay. So I want you to think about how you share information, which it sounds like it's primarily digital is that?

 

SR [00:45:53] Yes, uh dominantly. Yes. Yeah. 

 

JS [00:45:54] Okay and maybe think about how you know or think, you know, other people around Montana and Billings or other places in Montana share information. So think about how you and other people in Montana share information. Do you think uh that's different than how people in other parts of the country share information? Do you think Montanans share information in sort of unique fashion or uh is it similar to how people in different parts of the country might share information? 

 

SR [00:46:20] I think we we have a really interesting mix because we have such a farm mentality. We still do. Like people people are like, you know, they as much as much as we want to be like a big, big state and be, 'hey, we have we can have cool stores here too.' And, you know, we just we we still have that farm mentality where we are. We are still very much a farm society. So a lot of information is still talking over the phone and or talking face to face, which has gotten harder with everything going on right now. Um but over at the grocery store and you run into a friend and you're talking face to face um, you know, and and things like that. So it's like I mean, we do have a lot we still have a very much a farm mentality where we share the information when that person is like right there in front of us or they call out to us um or, you know um yeah like, it's very I don't want to say they don't do that in big cities because I've seen it happen in big cities and I've lived in big cities, but it's more it's more pertaining to like them, the individual, like catching up on their life vs. here in Montana where it's like, 'hey, did you hear you know what what's going on this Saturday?' You know, those sorts of things. Or it's like um, 'hey, did you hear what's going on? You know, down at, you know, Shipton's Big R.' Or like they they it just varies on um the types of information. We're still very much um or uh 'so and so's having a garage sale, you know, down the street um, you know, and I saw something I think you might like.' We share a lot of that like event information still still very much word of mouth, um which is great because it's something that um the uh it's something that the the the big people, the oh gosh like the pub, um yeah like, oh gosh oh what is it? The pub, um the events centers that we have here, they understand that people have the word of mouth. So whether it's you've heard it on the radio or whether you've heard it, you know, from somebody else, they're trying to get your or you saw it on a billboard somewhere, you're they know you're sharing it word of mouth to somebody else who's going to share it to somebody else. They they understand that and they've they've they've definitely changed their marketing strategies to that because they sell out quite frequently. Um so they they know they know who we are as people, which is pretty great. Um but I mean, I've noticed in bigger cities, it's mostly catching up about life events because they are so in tune with what is going on in their area event wise. Um so it's just it's kind of I mean, they still share information like we would do, like if we ran into each other at the grocery store or something. But it's just different sets of information of um 'oh, did you hear so-and-so had a baby or oh my God, you know, you look fantastic.' 'Yeah I know. I just dropped ten pounds.' Like, it's mostly more about them, the individuals at versus this is what's going on, you know, in around the town and stuff, um which has been um it has been pretty interesting to go from uh from this like, I I don't want to call us small small beans, but we kind of are because I've gone to like bigger cities where they're like where I run until like a friend of mine and they're like, 'yeah, like I knew that. Okay, so what?' I'm like, I feel dumb like okay just gonna, I'm gonna go now um and just wow.

 

JS [00:49:55] It sounds like much of it, as you said uh in some of your previous responses, right, the personal connection and. 

 

SR [00:50:02] Yes. 

 

JS [00:50:02] Sort of the network of the communities is really important to exchanging information in, you know, your experience in Montana.

 

SR [00:50:09] Well, and I have no problem I mean, even if I'm walking around the grocery store and stuff and somebody asks me a question or if I overhear a conversation or something, you know, about an event, I'm like, 'no, it's actually here.' And they're like, 'wait, what?' And I was like, 'yeah they changed it.' Um and they're they have no problem with somebody else butting in and giving them the correct information. In other cities? Heck no. Don't even do it. No. No. Like it is, I don't recommend it. I had my head bit off once, but I'm good. No. 

 

JS [00:50:40] Well, we'll keep that in mind. Thanks so much for that. So the final section of questions has to do with all the process of information, exchange, access and analysis and sharing and I want to talk about it in more contemporary terms. So uh since early March Covid-19, right, Coronavirus uh really took hold uh in Montana and, as a result, there've been changes to business operations. 

 

SR [00:51:07] Oh, yeah. 

 

JS [00:51:08] Movement of individuals uh, you know, working at home, uh shut shutting down or closing the doors or reducing capacity at different businesses and so forth. So I want you to think about, you know, early March to now and we've just now moved into, right, the second phase of  reopening so things are starting to change a little bit more. Uh and during that, you know, couple of month period, have you found yourself consuming more news and information, less information? Um yeah so talk us through about news and information during Coronavirus. 

 

SR [00:51:39] Um it's gotten to the point sometimes where my spouse has to slap my phone out of my hand because I so I suffer from anxiety and um not being and I'm very much so my my spouse and I are very much um opposite sides of the coin. Um she is very much an extra introvert and I am very much an extrovert. So not being out there in the world um was very difficult, and it still is. So for me, trying to fill that connectedness, um I find myself on social media a lot. Um it's been hard. Um I got hired for the job that I'm currently in like beg like mid April-ish, um and all of my training was online, like I we did we had Zoom meetings. We were literally eight hours a day on Zoom doing training for this job. Um but all of so all of my my teammates that I love my teammates they're absolutely great. I feel like I know them so personally. We've all we've only ever met over Zoom. We've none of us have ever met in person, which is so strange because we're still all really super close, even though we're on separate teams now, which is which is insane. Um I feel like it's definitely gotten to the point where I feel like I am um I get to points where I feel overwhelmed with the information. So I just I have to set my stuff down and I have to take I have to unplug and I have to take a break. I gotta go dig in the dirt. Like, I just need to like go and have a moment of peace and quiet because it's just I mean it updates so fast that I feel like I can't keep up with it at times, that I'm like, you know what? I'll just watch the news tonight. I'll just unplug for a little bit. I'll just, you know, we'll be okay. Um the world is still going to be in Covid when I get back. So I'm just gonna go dig in the dirt for a little bit and just unplug. Um and it is hard. I mean, because my my anxiety does act up because there's so much um so much uncertainty with it, because we've never had anything like this before. And it's hard. There's also a lot of other situations where um with my advocacy work and stuff like that, I've also had to now think about um okay um well, what about, you know cuz my big my big pull is um kids being fed. Um that's my biggest thing to be completely honest. And so the other thing I, you know, the flip side of that coin is okay well how do we get meals to these kids and how do you know those sorts of things? And so my brain does. I don't I feel like I can't turn myself. I can't turn off to be completely honest, um which can be overwhelming. 

 

JS [00:54:22] Yeah so speaking about your feelings of overwhelmingness and anxiety, is there sort of a threshold where you say, I feel this anxious or this overwhelmed? So now I'm going to go or is it is very different, very situational? 

 

SR [00:54:35] Honestly, it varies on what I'm reading to be completely honest. Like it varies. Um some days are better than others. Um I mean I get to a point where I am very ag. I get to a point of agitation with it almost because it's just so fast and I can't keep up with it that my spouse knows nope, we're done. She calls our code word, um which is lights out, and we turn everything off like like we of course we keep the Wi-Fi on because we've got small kids and the kids are connected to the Roku and we have cartoons and things like that. But I mean, like social media wise, nope lights out. Where we're done, um we go we need to go play in the backyard like we need to go get some sunshine. Someone needs, you know, we need to hydrate. We need to get some sunshine and we need to go dig in the dirt. It is time for a disconnect um because I definitely get a little bit agitated because I feel with especially with my anxiety and everything like that, I feel like there's not much I can do or I get so frustrated because um or yeah I get so frustrated because I find pictures of people of of masks left behind in parking lots and gloves left behind in parking lots. And I'm like, what is the point if you're going to if you're going to litter, why? And so there's a point of agitation where I feel like I can't do anything to help because I'm, but I am helping because I'm high risk and I got to stay in the house. So it's kind of a dual edged sword. So when I get that agitation point, my wife is like, nope, we're done. Nope. Phone's off. We're done. 

 

JS [00:56:08] Yeah, that's great to have, you know, built in support from your partner uh, you know, to help recognize when when you're feeling anxious and overwhelmed. 

 

SR [00:56:16] Oh, yeah. 

 

JS [00:56:17] To step away from that for a little bit. 

 

SR [00:56:19] And I and I have friends that suffer from depression. And so, for me, another point is checking in on them because I know their house is kind of it depends. Um some of my friends, I guess I have a mix of friends who are introverts and extroverts and so um checking up on them because I know sometimes the house can be um overwhelming, especially with like, you know, laundry piling up and everything like that. And, you know, kids are running around in the background. It's just chaos um and there's a lot of uncertainty with all of that. And so just checking in on them and stuff. So I do. I mean, I do my best to check in on them and make sure that they're okay. Like, 'hey do you need anything? Do you need me to to let small humans run?' Like I have friends that live in apartments who drop their kids off in my backyard and they'll sit out on my porch and I'm like, 'I'm working.' And I'm like, 'who the hell? Oh, it's okay. Okay, we're good. They're in the backyard. They're fine.' It's like they'll just come and use my playbook, my my playground equipment. I'm like, 'I don't care. Just wipe it down and go for it.' Um, but yeah it's like they 'the kids are running wild. We need to get out of the house' and I'm like, 'I get it. I've got a backyard in here, go, I don't care.' Um so it's it's just mostly um you kind of we have to it it's become a very weird adaption that we've had to kind of accomplish in such a short amount of time um and some people are taking it better than others and feel like I have massive respect for teachers now because I don't remember half the stuff that I thought I used I did because I've been helping trying to help my siblings and I have no idea when I'm doing. Like them trying to figure out how to teach over Zoom? Nope. Godspeed. Can't do it. 

 

JS [00:57:59] Yes, they're certainly loads of challenges 

 

SR [00:58:01] Oh, yeah. 

 

JS [00:58:03] involved with changes in the way we move around and the way we share information, so. 

 

SR [00:58:07] Oh, yeah. 

 

JS [00:58:08] As a follow up to to what you were just talking about, where have you been getting your information about uh Covid-19 about Coronavirus? And then as a quick follow up to that, um just as we talked about earlier, how do you determine if that information is trustworthy or reliable? 

 

SR [00:58:23] So I do I go to straight to the source. I'm I'm again I mean I'm cuttin I'd rather it be told to me straight then, you know, then get filtered through and play a game of telephone like that just annoys the crap out of me. So I usually just go to like the CDC website and just be like, look at what's going on here? Um you know, what do I need to be on the lookout for? Am I still at high risk? You know, has some things changed? Um because they relatively update things quite frequently, which is nice um especially with all of that because I I suffer from asthma, from, you know, being born born in the California smog bowl of Fresno, and um my lungs just couldn't handle it. So I still struggle. I still have asthma and I still get bronchitis every year. Um and so Covid has definitely made me be on high alert because I am at high risk and I've got two little boys that kind of rely on me. So I can't just I have to be careful with what I do and so I'm I I'm constantly checking myself and um, you know, making sure that I am, you know, in a mask. And I am making sure that I am, you know, watching how many people are coming into my you know, how many people are we having over um if we're having anybody over, um you know? Definitely, you know, sanitizing everything and things like that because it's like I understand that my health is important, but again, things are changing so like I they change so fast and um people show different um different symptoms. So it's kind of so I feel like I'm constantly checking that site like that. I'm pretty sure that I'm pretty sure Google knows that I check that site really often. So it's like one of the first things that pops up if I type the letter C, it's like, poof, I'm like, 'okay, cool.' Um but yeah um there, you know, I just tend to go straight to the source to be completely honest because I just um I don't like cutting through the BS of all of that. I'm it's just how I am. Like it's just. Yeah, it's just a part of who I am to be completely honest cuz I feel yeah I just I feel like it gets so diluted or taken out of your consideration where we're missing big chunks of the information because of um, 'oh I'm left wing' or 'oh I'm right wing.' So like we're missing like certain points that are important. And so people are getting overlooked because of that. Um so for me, I just like to cut out the middleman and just go straight to the source to be completely honest.

 

JS [01:00:48] Yeah. So if you're going straight to the source to try to get as unfiltered uh information as possible um from the CDC, what's your understanding of Covid-19, of Coronavirus? How do you understand it? 

 

SR [01:01:02] How do I unders? Um so I understand it is not fun at all. Um people have I have a friend who had Coronavirus here in Billings um and she said it was it felt like an elephant was sitting on her chest. She could not, she couldn't take a deep breath without feeling like she was like inhaling glass shards. That's what she said because she couldn't she it felt like an elephant sitting on her chest, but then when she would try to like take a deep breath, it was it felt like she was inhaling glass shards. And then when she would exhale, she couldn't exhale fast enough so she was essentially choking on her own exhale. And I'm just like, good God like I struggle with asthma on like a daily basis. So like that, no, that would've killed me like right there. Like, nope, I'm good. Um she had a really high fever um and it wasn't even her that she she didn't even travel somewhere that was affected. Her boyfriend traveled to Seattle before all of this, before the shut down and everything, came home. He only had a cold and she had the full on like she was one of our first cases here in Montana. Full on. Just was not good at all. Um and it was hard for her to be at home for two weeks. And of course, she didn't have any symptoms for oh gosh I think five days. So she I remember I remember being on the phone with her while she's, of course, on oxygen and everything like that. She's crying because she for five days had no idea that she was positive. And she's spreading it throughout all of these places that she's been. She's like, 'I have been,' she goes, 'I went I went to my my nephew's daycare center and I went to the grocery store and I went to go visit my nana.' And she's like just like she just lost it. She just couldn't she couldn't believe that she didn't know that she had it. But it's like she didn't have symptoms. So, of course, she wouldn't have known. Luckily, everybody else is fine. Like, they all, you know, quarantined up and they're fine and everything. But she just the guilt of that, like it was eating at her when she's fighting for to breathe it yeah it was eating at her. Um and so I had to kind of talk her down. I'm like, 'look, it's not your fault. You didn't know. Um it would be different if you did know cuz then you're a dick.' Like 'it would be different if you did know.' But yeah, I was like, 'but you didn't know' and I was like 'it's like it's not anybody's fault.' I was like 'it's okay, it's gonna be alrite. Everybody's going to be fine. You warned everybody.' Like she called she called those places and was like, 'okay. I don't want to alarm you or anything, but I am now. Covid positive Covid-19 positive. I had been at your site roughly, you know, five days ago. I wanted to let you know um I had been in contact with, you know, a lot of your people there,' um especially the daycare center. The daycare center closed down the next day and just sanitized everything. Um and yeah, they were they were pretty they were nice about it, though. They were completely understanding. They were like, 'you know what? It's not your fault. You didn't know. It's okay. Thank you for telling us.' Um but there was a lot of guilt that she's still struggling with, you know, because she had it. Um and so and she's still kind of um it's definitely changed her um because she doesn't want to go she doesn't want to leave the house. She's afraid that she's going to keep spreading it or that she's not in the clear. And I mean, she's feeling a lot better, which is great. She's weakened, but she's feeling a lot better. But it's like she doesn't want to go to the grocery store because she's afraid um and she's also worried that she could catch it again. And because they're so mismatched information, that's what she's worried about. She's she's not sure of what's going on and I'm like, 'honey, go to the CDC website.' She goes, 'yeah, but it doesn't tell me if I've already had it, can I get it again? She goes, 'they're not answering my questions. That's my biggest problem.' She goes, 'it's nice to go.' She goes, 'I get you. It's nice to go to the source. But they're not answering my que the they're not answering the questions that I'm asking.' So it's it's hard. So she's so I've been delivering groceries to her um and, you know, making sure that she's she's doing okay and stuff. And so she she will call and we'll talk and everything because she just she's she's just terrified. There was a there were a lot of fear that happened with it. Um and so um it's been it's been difficult um and everything changes so fast that it's like for all for all we know, a lot of us have had it, we don't even know. Like that's the thing is we just we don't know um to be completely honest, um which is um which is no one's fault to be completely honest. It's just one of those things that um is just how fast the information is changing and how much oh gosh what is it? Um just how much information that we have um because especially with like diseases and things like that, it's like things mutate. Things change um it can vary from person to person. Like her boyfriend had a cold, like I'm talking like just the sniffles. And she she about died a couple times like it was it's intense, to say the least. Um but that's it, that's the other thing is like for all we know that, you know, because I had an upper respiratory infection in January, like early January or like late December, early January, for all I know, I could've had it. I had no idea, to say the least, because we didn't it wasn't on our it wasn't on the US radar until like February. Um yeah so it's it's it's difficult. Covid has made it I mean, it's just it's always changing and so I feel like there's a level of anxiousness for when I go on to the CDC site. Like for me, I feel anxious going on to the CDC site because I'm I'm constantly looking for, okay do I have those symptoms? No. Okay. Are there any new symptoms that I didn't notice last time? No. Okay. Um but there's definitely a level of anxiety because that could be and we just don't know it yet. It's hard. 

 

JS [01:07:23] Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So thank you for sharing that information about uh your friend as well as, you know, your own anxiety about the fast pace of information and the quantity of information. I think that that sums up uh your experience with Covid-19 very, very nicely. So. 

 

SR [01:07:40] And it's and it's also strange because it varies from state to state. So, like, I have friends who live in other states who are like, 'wait, you're in quarantine. What is this?' And I'm like, 'are you kidding me? Get in the house.' And they're like, 'it's fine. No one's going to get it.' And I'm like, 'you've got to be kidding me, right?' And then of course like California is like completely locked down like they're just there yeah and I've got other friends who are like, 'oh, yeah, yeah, we did that for like a week. What?' Like I haven't gone back to work yet. Like I have been literally at my entire new job at home working and there is no um my boss is essentially like, 'look, if we have any new any new cases,' um he goes 'I'll check it weekly. If we have any new cases in Yellowstone County, you ain't coming back yet.' And he's just like, 'sorry.' He's like 'I have no plans to put anybody at risk in this building.' He's like he's like 'I I really hope your internet's well.'

 

JS [01:08:42] Yeah. Well, again, thank you for for sharing that information. We've uh we've reached the end of our question set. So it's it's been great to to chat with you. I really appreciate your your openness and your willingness to talk with. 

 

SR [01:08:54] Yeah. Well, thank you. And thank you so much for including me on this. 

 

JS [01:08:58] Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. It was great to chat with you. I really appreciate your uh your responses and your your thoughtfulness uh in the the interview. So.