Loren and Charlon Alberda Interview Transcript
Interview Transcript
Interview Date: 08 June 2020
Interviewer: Dr. Justin D Shanks
Interview Participants: Loren and Charlon Alberda
JS [00:00:00] First, thank you uh very much for uh for being here this evening. Um, to start, uh I'd love to learn a little bit more, hear a little bit more about the two of you. Who are you? What are your names? Um how would you describe yourselves? What do you do for careers? What are you do in your free time? Uh just just tell us who you are.
LA [00:00:21] Go ahead hon.
CA [00:00:21] Oh, me first. Um, I'm a farmer's wife. I'm a type A personality. I like to get things done. Um I like my family. I like to make things good for them. Um I grew up on the Gulf Coast of Texas, but lost my accent a short time away from Texas. So and have lived in Montana for over 40 years, and I think it's the best place ever. So.
JS [00:01:01] And what's your name?
CA [00:01:02] Oh. Charlon Alberda (laughter).
JS [00:01:04] Excellent. And you, sir?
LA [00:01:10] I'm Loren Alberda and lived here all my life, I guess. Rather sheltered, I guess. Spent a little time in the military, but oh, I graduated from high school. Right. Early on, I knew I wanted to be a farmer or involved in agriculture anyway. And uh it's just worked out that way. My dad basically put the place together and I've we've taken it over. And uh it's just, you know, it's. You're not going to get rich in agriculture. But uh it is it's a rewarding way of life. And uh I think it's you get you get knocked around by Mother Nature. And uh it's a it's a it's a learning process. There's not too many days that you do the same thing. And there's big variety and I like that. And uh I don't know, it just never struck me that well, you maybe you should've done something different. You know, it's it's been good. It's been good.
JS [00:02:39] Excellent. Thank you both uh for that introduction. So, Charlon, you mentioned that you moved away from Texas a little while ago and found your way to Montana. How long have you been in the Bozeman area?
CA [00:02:53] Uh I've been here since 1976. So um what does that work out? You do the math (laughter).
JS [00:03:02] All right.
LA [00:03:03] Forty four.
JS [00:03:03] Yeah.
CA [00:03:04] Forty four years and so. Yeah. And lived away from Texas since I was 18. So.
JS [00:03:14] What uh what initially brought you to Montana?
CA [00:03:19] Um a job. Uh my first husband's job brought him out here. And so the company opened an office here. And uh he had been successful and the in what he did there and in Wisconsin and we heard in Wisconsin that they trusted him to be his own boss out here. So.
JS [00:03:43] Great. Uh and Loren you uh born and raised in the Gallatin Valley, right?
LA [00:03:52] Yup been here my whole life. There's seen a fair amount of change.
CA [00:03:57] So I'd love to actually talk about that. So, Charlon, you've been here for a couple of decades long and you've been here for a couple of decades longer. Um how has Bozeman/Manhattan, Amsterdam, sort of the how has the Gallatin Valley changed in the time that uh each of you has lived here?
LA [00:04:17] Oh, just just a whole. You know, there's a population wise, it's really increased. It used to be pretty, pretty sparse. You know, I can remember coming home from Bozeman at night once in a while we go to some program or something in Bozeman and we get to Belgrade there and there's a four way stop. Right. And it's still a four way stop. There's a light there now, but then the road, that Amsterdam Churchill Road. You went you went straight west. And once you left Belgrade, it was no lights. It was dark. There were about two houses on the whole stretch there, you know. And it still amazes me whenever I drive that road. And there is just there was absolutely nothing out there. And uh it uh I don't know. It's one of those things that really struck with me. And, you know, you know back in the 50s, it was that was a different day and age. I mean. There's more there's more wealth and I mean people people basically are pretty well off here in the valley. I mean, I'm sure it's it's a struggle for a lot of them, but uh back in the 50s, I mean, yeah, if you went to town once a month that was that was it. And I can I always remember we go to town once in a while go together as a whole family and we'd stop at the there was was a Wilcoxson's, an ice cream store there on I dunno which street that is. It's not Mendenhall, it's on the other side. But anyway, we'd everybody get an ice cream cone for a nickel. And that was that was a big deal. That was a big deal. It still sticks in my mind today. And that was a real treat.
JS [00:06:27] Yeah.
LA [00:06:27] And, you know, we have so much today and uh don't always appreciate it.
CA [00:06:35] The thing we noticed moving here from the Twin Cities area and Eau Claire, Wisconsin, is that this area seemed like it was 10 years behind the rest of the country. It uh and I think we're still a little behind the way um the rest of the country is. I mean, we've seen it with the with the virus now that we're not as impacted as other places are um because we still have a little bit of that being behind, which is a good thing. It's a good thing. So.
JS [00:07:10] Yeah, definitely so speaking about uh the area maybe being a little bit behind the rest of the country and which sounds like something that you appreciate.
CA [00:07:20] Right.
JS [00:07:20] What uh let's imagine for a moment that you know, I'm a friend who lives someplace else and thinking about moving to the Gallatin Valley. How would you describe uh your community to me? What do you like? What's challenging about living here? Uh what don't you like perhaps? Uh how would you sort of what would be the the the sales pitch to move into this area?
LA [00:07:46] Well, there's you know, there's, you know, Bozeman's rather crowded, but um there's a lot of there's a lot of open space yet and that people people are looking for that. And um there's there's a lot of things to do. I mean there's a lotta hiking, fishing, hunting. Take your pick. And uh it just has a lot to offer. Where whereas you know, 20, 30 years ago, you figured well, that's that's that's what it is, you know, and uh but now you see all these you see these people coming in here and that's what they want too. And you can't really blame them.
JS [00:08:38] What about you, Charlon? What what's maybe your your highlight for the area?
CA [00:08:46] Um I think because it's it's one of the safer places that you can live and uh and it's one of the prettiest places you can live, you know uh like Loren mentioned about his job. There's variety here. It never stays the same. It's just very pretty and it's safe. And on the whole, the people are good. You know, we can still we can still leave our doors unlocked. And um you know, that's remarkable in this period of time.
JS [00:09:29] Certainly. So thank you both for the very nice uh detailed overview.
LA [00:09:36] I don't know. It's just it's just a good place to live. Good climate. You got four seasons. That's to me, that's worth a bunch.
JS [00:09:51] Well, now that we know a little bit more about the two of you and a little bit about the Gallatin Valley, I want to talk uh a bit about your practices and decisions about information and news. Um so the first question is, how do you currently receive your news? Is it in print? Is it online and radio, television? Or sort of a mix of all those?
LA [00:10:13] Print and television and radio.
CA [00:10:18] Okay do you wanna?
JS [00:10:20] Please.
CA [00:10:21] Mine is is uh, radio, television and uh the newspaper.
JS [00:10:30] Okay so it sounds like you both have a nice mix.
CA [00:10:32] Pretty much.
JS [00:10:33] What about particular types of sources? So what what types of news are you are you reading in print and maybe what programs are you watching? What are you listening to? Um are you getting different types of information from those sources?
CA [00:10:45] Okay, I'm I'm I'm.
LA [00:10:49] This is where the rubber meets the road (laughter).
CA [00:10:51] I'm I'm I'm I'm a big Rush Limbaugh fan. I listen to him and listen to some of PBS. I listen to CBS in the morning. And so I try to keep a somewhat balanced view of what I think's going on, um but basically that. I look at the [Bozeman Daily] Chronicle to see what's happening locally and um that's pretty much it.
LA [00:11:21] Yeah, I'd say the same thing. It um she you probably listen more to I don't know more to talk radio than I do, but uh I listen when I get a chance and uh newspaper I like to I still like to read a newspaper.
JS [00:11:40] And the so the newspaper that you both read is the Bozeman Daily Chronicle?
LA [00:11:44] Yes it is.
JS [00:11:46] Do you read any other newspapers?
CA [00:11:46] No, not at this, no. Someone offered us one recently that we're gonna look into subscribing to, but we haven't been reading it and so uh and the other thing that um he reads quite a bit of is he all of his Western ag papers.
LA [00:12:05] Yeah.
CA [00:12:06] He gets he gets several
LA [00:12:09] Western Livestock Reporter.
CA [00:12:11] Western Livestock Reporter and uh Range Magazine. And so I don't um I don't read those extensively. Look at them a little bit.
JS [00:12:21] And those both come to you in the mail as a print?
CA [00:12:24] Right. And they come we well, the Western Ag Reporter comes weekly, and so.
LA [00:12:31] Range comes every three months.
JS [00:12:36] And is Range uh a regional publication or is that national?
LA [00:12:42] No. I dunno how you would say, regional? It uh.
CA [00:12:43] I bet regional.
LA [00:12:43] It's produced in Nevada, but it covers all of Western United States.
JS [00:12:49] Okay. So for the most part, aside from the for Range and the Western Ag Reporter, uh your local news is mostly coming through the [Bozeman Daily] Chronicle and then you're sort of more national or global stuff is gonna come through the television or radio, is that right?
CA [00:13:07] Right.
LA [00:13:07] Well, we like to watch uh local news on television.
JS [00:13:11] It's a nightly news program?
CA [00:13:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we in the morning as well.
JS [00:13:17] And what about face to face communication with other folks to maybe find out what's going on in the area or maybe what's going on with other farmers? Do you do any news or information exchange that way?
LA [00:13:30] He does some when he goes to the corner cafe and talks to some of those farmers. Um I can't say that. Well, I can't say that I really do. Uh you know not not significantly about the news. Um might talk a little bit to Milo the neighbor or his daughter in law, Kim Todd, but not not significantly. We do. Trying to think. I yeah, I guess might as well say I talked to the neighbors a bit.
LA [00:14:10] Yeah. I don't know. I yeah, I, I guess. Mostly talk to like minded people, most most times it's uh other farmers.
JS [00:14:24] And do you think that face to face a going to the corner cafe, for example, do you think you do that more or less than you used to?
LA [00:14:33] Less. Yeah.
JS [00:14:35] Why do you if you had to speculate?
LA [00:14:37] Oh age. I used to be it used to be pretty important. I really strive to get down there anymore. I know a couple times a week is good this time of year. It's just, you know, it's just what is. It uh I do I do enjoy it. You don't know you. Yeah, you. You run into a lot of other farmers. But you also run into the other people from other walks. And that's that's interesting.
JS [00:15:13] So speaking about how things maybe changed over the course of your your lives, I want you to try to think back as far as you can and recall your earliest memory of the news, uh either radio or television or a newspaper or uh what's your earliest memory as far back as you can go of consuming news?
CA [00:15:36] JFK's assassination when I was a senior in high school. Um and then the other one for me after that was Robert Kennedy's assassination. Just a short well, it was a while after, but those were sig significant news things. Uh I wasn't involved in news as a young wife and mother. Didn't get that way until more recently.
LA [00:16:15] I don't know. In uh 1949 that was a very that was a rough winter. I mean, we were stranded and nobody went anywhere. And the airplane would come over. I think it came over twice and dropped dropped mail.
JS [00:16:38] Wow.
LA [00:16:38] For the neighbor neighborhood area there and I was it was a big it was a big deal. But, yeah, then, you know, maybe we didn't realize it, but it just seems to me like the 50s and yeah the 60s start you grew up a little bit more. There was more turmoil in the 60s than there was in the 50s. And then you start you start taking notice of uh what was going on moreso, like like yeah JFK's assassination that was that really stands out.
JS [00:17:21] Sure. So with the with the JFK assassination, Charlon, do you remember how you got that news? Was it, so you were in high school? Was it something that they announced?
CA [00:17:31] Yeah it was announced in high school. And I and somehow, amazingly, it seems like televisions were brought into the classrooms or something. And and I watched I was watching television when, oh, I can't think of his name right now, but the guy that uh shot Lee Harvey. Was that?
JS [00:17:58] Jack Ruby.
CA [00:17:59] Jack Ruby. When he I was watching television when he did it. And so uh.
JS [00:18:06] So two big, very important moments in national history. Both uh well, one witnessed on live on television and the other one consumed, learned of by television.
CA [00:18:18] Right.
JS [00:18:19] Um what about you, Loren? Do you recall?
LA [00:18:21] Oh yeah, I could take you to the exact spot where where for sure that I was helping he's hone now. It was over no, but he had a ranch north of Belgrade way up in the hills there. And that was I think it was November what? 22? Or 23 one of those in there. But anyway, we were up there uh gathering this getting his cattle up and we came down to the corrals where we were loading loading out and his wife was there with the car and she had heard it on the radio. Like boy that was that was that was quite a deal. It uh I could take you to the exact spot to this day.
JS [00:19:06] Yeah. So. So speaking about the current day versus those very vivid memories, how has your access to news and information changed in that, I guess, 60 year period?
CA [00:19:24] Mine has changed so that I am really interested.
JS [00:19:27] Okay.
CA [00:19:27] I'm I I went from almost a complete disinterest to being very interested in the news and um so today, at this point, I have to pull myself away from it because it's not always peaceable.
JS [00:19:56] What about your Loren?
LA [00:19:57] Yeah. No. Mainly, but when we growing up in the 50s and stuff and early part of the 60s, it was pretty much newspaper for me. I always did like to read read the newspaper and uh and yeah, I guess I can I listen to radio, but I can't I can't really remember much about any news coming over the radio back then. And uh it just it was pretty much and then like like she says it was wasn't that you weren't interested, but it just wasn't a big deal or anything, you know. And today it's it's I'm very interested now.
JS [00:20:40] Yeah, so what why do you if we could just sort of speculate or hypothesize a little bit. Why do you think you became more interested in it in the news as you aged, as you grew up?
LA [00:20:51] Well, hopefully we've matured some from the 50s, but uh it uh you realize the the, you know, the policies that are being made and implemented they they they affect people and uh yeah just like to know what's going on and who's doing what. And it's just it's it's way more important today than it was back then.
CA [00:21:29] And well that's what I would say. It's what's what's happening in the news today is way more important and I have more people in my life that I care about. And I want to make sure they're okay. And uh and it's important to me that the right kind of people are going to make it safe for them.
JS [00:21:50] Yeah, those are very, very important sentiments, certainly. Um so you mentioned uh you get your news from some print sources, some radio, some television. You didn't mention online sources. Could you could you walk me through if that's a conscious decision or just a lifestyle decision or just more comfortable with those other forms of information?
LA [00:22:15] More and more more comfortable by far.
CA [00:22:18] Uh for a little while when he when we first had an iPad, he watched a fair amount, but he really he prefers his livestock stuff on there. I don't know how much you watch for news. And for me, it's been a conscious choice not to be online. I I'm and I'm and I'm now having to do it and it it's not something that's making me happy, but we have to do it. And to the point where I have to do a Zoom meeting on Wednesday and I'm like, not impressed (laughter). And so uh but and I can't I I personally don't want to I think people that watch too much Internet news get a lot of skewed information. And and that scares me. I would rather rather listen to the sources that I've talked about and um you know balance between them and people that spend too much time on the Internet, I think they can get some goofy information, and so that scares me.
JS [00:23:43] So to follow up on that and this is a question for both of you, uh do you think the Internet is more predisposed to having skewed information or so I guess you mentioned, Charlon, that you know folks who maybe watch too much online news or consume too much news online are maybe more likely to get skewed information. Do you think that's because of the Internet? Or do you think it's because of the types of sources that are available for Internet use?
CA [00:24:13] I I think it could be both. I think it could be the sources that are available, but I also think that um um I think the Internet uh I think maybe people that control those sources want skewed information um because they especially they especially want to approach young people and make form their thinking and you know, I feel relatively safe, but I also don't want I don't want to listen to real crazy stuff. I quite honestly, truthfully, I prefer to make my own opinions. I don't like to I don't like
LA [00:25:09] Well, you look at it objectively.
CA [00:25:11] Well, I like to make my own opinions about everything. I am I'm not going to readily accept somebody else's opinion.
JS [00:25:20] And that holds true if it's information you're getting on the radio or print or online?
LA [00:25:27] Oh absolutely.
CA [00:25:27] I'm going to make my own opinion whether I agree with it or not agree with it. And I'm always going to I'm always going to hold to what I choose rather than watch somebody else's.
JS [00:25:40] Excellent. Thank you, uh so two um or actually three questions about Internet related topics. Um do you have Internet service at the house here?
CA [00:25:51] Yes.
JS [00:25:52] And how would you evaluate your Internet service? Is it fast and reliable? Is it slow and kind of spotty?
CA [00:26:00] Right now at this point, I think it's pretty fast and reliable. Brenna just bought me a new Ipad and we have the Wi-Fi so that when she was doing online school, it's it's and we're we're hooked up with, I think, a pretty decent company. Um they've not complain when the kids have used it. And so um I don't use it at all, um.
JS [00:26:24] But it's but it's here and it's available?
CA [00:26:29] Right.
JS [00:26:29] Okay. And then uh I know the answer to this question, but do either of you have a smartphone?
CA [00:26:35] No. No, not yet (laughter).
LA [00:26:38] Not yet.
JS [00:26:40] And again, just to follow up, could you talk me through the decision not to have a smartphone?
LA [00:26:48] Oh I don't know it uh we've got we've got a couple of flip phones and it seems to work. We have enough trouble with them.
CA [00:26:58] I you know, I understand the value for other people um and it um I I just don't feel the need of it. I don't feel the need of all the information that people can um.
LA [00:27:17] That pretty much sums it up.
CA [00:27:20] Um that they can I realize they can achieve they get information from the cell phone or the smartphone, but I don't feel the need of it.
JS [00:27:30] Great.
CA [00:27:31] Nor do I have the time.
JS [00:27:33] No need and no time. Uh and then another smart phone type question. What about social media? Do either of you use social media?
LA [00:27:45] Nope. No.
JS [00:27:45] Or do you with any of the
LA [00:27:46] Never have. Never will.
JS [00:27:49] Do you do you come across information that maybe one of your kids or grandkids shows you that they see on social media?
LA [00:27:56] Rare.
CA [00:27:56] Very rarely.
JS [00:27:59] So probably not any news items necessarily?
CA [00:28:02] No.
LA [00:28:03] No.
JS [00:28:06] Great. Thank you.
CA [00:28:08] It is nice to remain in the dark (laughter).
JS [00:28:11] Not necessarily in the dark. It sounds like you're getting plenty of information from other sources.
CA [00:28:16] Yeah, I'm getting plenty of information and so.
JS [00:28:20] And so now I want to shift from uh the places and the sources where you access your information, talk about information trustworthiness. And you've already both spoken about this a little bit. But when you read a piece of uh news information or you hear something on the radio or on the news, how do you determine if that information is trustworthy, accurate, factual, reliable? How do you how do you help to find pieces of information that are trustworthy in order to inform how you form your opinion?
CA [00:28:54] If I'm going to accept something that somebody is telling me, I I like to know a little bit about the person that's giving you that information. And and I like to know kind of what their value system is. And usually and if if I possibly can I want their value system to be close to what mine is, which uh so I don't know if that answered your question or not.
JS [00:29:24] Yeah. It's so I guess the quick follow up to that would be, so if you find someone who whose value system aligns with yours, they have in the past given you trustworthy, reliable information, do you worry about the possibility of receiving inaccurate information from that individual, either intentionally or unintentionally?
CA [00:29:48] I don't worry about it. I um I, you know, let's okay I'm going to I'm just going to go ahead and take Rush Limbaugh for an example. Uh I started listening we started listening to him many years ago because of Loren's brother, Wayne. And um and we're conservative. And and so we started listening to him. And there were times when what he said uh made me raise my eyebrows and stuff. The thing about Rush is that he has, like I have, he has matured and gotten better. And and certainly now right now, he was just diagnosed with stage four lung cancer and he's he's um battling that. And yet he makes an all out effort to be on the air to to give a little balanced report about what we hear on with the other news outlets. And and it's really difficult. The other thing about Rush that is important to me is that uh his brother I've known for a long time is a Christian, a serious born again Christian. And now, especially as Rush has um fought his cancer, his battle with cancer. I'm seeing that maturity in his face as well. And that's important to me.
JS [00:31:27] Thank you. Loren, what about you? How do you determine if your information is reliable?
LA [00:31:32] Oh I don't know. Mostly on you know, maybe I trust these people too much, but I like Rush. I shoot. I trust him. I mean, I not say that he's he's uh hundred percent, right, all the time. But uh by and large, you know, I it's just it's just the way we are. I you watch these other more liberal newscasters and stuff, and I I uh to me, I mean, you can see right through 'em, you can see what they're what the agenda is there. And I just I dunno, I just appreciate Rush. You get uh it's a he's a square shooter and uh I like what he has to say.
JS [00:32:28] So uh if I'm understanding correctly, it seems very much like, Charlon, if if your values align perhaps with the person you're getting the information from
LA [00:32:38] Yeah, it's got it's got to do with values.
JS [00:32:41] Makes that person who's relaying the information moer trusted.
LA [00:32:45] Exactly.
JS [00:32:45] Great um so in the last couple of years, um there's been a lot of attention in the news about topics like fake news, alternative facts, uh the concept of post truth, which shifts from relying on facts to more of a focus on emotion, um have either of you have both of you heard of these phrases?
CA [00:33:12] Fake news.
LA [00:33:12] Oh yeah fake news. There's so so much to my way of thinking so much of the news that's out there today is there is an agenda behind it. And you can see it, I think for the most part we see we can see through most of it.
JS [00:33:28] So fake news to you would convey some some sort of news information that has a very explicit agenda behind it.
LA [00:33:37] Oh absolutely.
JS [00:33:38] What do what about Charlon? What does fake news mean to you? Or have you what sort of contexts have you heard it?
CA [00:33:49] Um well, I I don't know, I think fake news can actually be sometimes true, but it's it's fake and it's it's um I don't know it's hard to explain. Ask me the question. What is fake news?
JS [00:34:17] Yeah. What does fake news mean to you?
CA [00:34:23] Fake news. I think, like Loren said, you have to you have to examine every piece because there is some news. Okay, you take here's what happens like with President Trump and I'll be honest, you probably figured out already we're we're Trump supporters. Okay and Trump is always talking about fake news. And and I'm sure there is an element of news and and he honestly, I've come to the conclusion that he does sort of a bait and switch technique. And I think he throws out himself some fake news in order to rile the media itself. And, you know, like recently with the bleach thing and the Lysol thing, I think sometimes he it's I call it a bait and switch thing. He throws out something that's really controversial. He gets them all wound up and then he really has an agenda to maybe get something done, but he's got the media all wound up about this and maybe he's getting something done like whatever. And uh and I don't know that that's a good thing. I don't it makes me, you know, I would like that we all could be more grown up about all this, but uh it just seems like um it seems like people, for the most people um, most of the people they want all this foolishness. They're entertained at other times with a bunch of foolishness and and then they seem to want it in their news as well. Instead of instead of getting down to what's really important for people.
JS [00:36:17] So the people's predisposition toward foolishness, as you said, in other areas of their lives uh makes them desire this perhaps sort of foolishness even in the news portion of their lives?
CA [00:36:31] Well, I think I think so. I think so um because uh it half the time I'm like, why are you wasting your time on this? There there are serious things, you know, like right now with all this, the Coronavirus going on um they've talked about the fact that um more children being abused because they're all staying home and and the parents are um doing drugs and alcohol. And there are some serious problems going on. And yet they're occupied with other things uh and to me that's it's foolishness.
JS [00:37:18] Can we just I want to quickly revisit the little mention you made about President Trump and how your your understanding is that he perhaps sometimes purposely uh promotes or broadcasts information that is false or fake under the goal of winding up the media to draw attention away from perhaps a policy agenda or some sort of legislation he wants to pass or other decisions, did I understand that correctly?
CA [00:37:50] Uh well that's what I said and I don't know that he's um.
LA [00:37:56] It appears that way.
CA [00:37:57] It appears it seems like he knows the media wants this big frenzy. Okay, give them a frenzy. And then in the meantime, I can make this work so that the farmer is getting a better, you know, I can work on the on the trade deals. Or I can build my wall or I can do these things that are really uh more important, uh making sure companies are building masks or whatever as opposed to, I don't know, I don't know if that's really what he's done or not, but it just struck me and and listening to it uh, you know, do I like everything he says? No, but I appreciate the fact that basically I think basically he likes this country. He loves this country. I really do. And I know a lot of people wouldn't agree, but I think he does. Here's the thing that impresses me about Trump, okay and uh every time we hear a little bit of good news, the stock market goes up. Uh the other thing that and look at everything that's facing us, these riots and the virus, every time we hear a little bit of good news the stock market goes up. And the first time I heard about the virus and recognized that it was bad, I heard that the stock market they wouldn't even give the points. They gave just a percentage. And I said uh oh something this is really bad. And that's to me, I mean, I'm not invested in the stock market, but that's a good barometer, if you will, of what's going on in our country. The other thing that has really impressed me about Trump is that his family is behind him. His sons, his daughters, daughter in laws um of anybody that could desert him and they're they're behind him and supporting. And if he was really as terrible as everyone would have everyone believe, I just don't think you'd see that in family. I mean, I've been a part of two several families in the course of two marriages and my own growing up and stuff. And there's a lot of dysfunction in our families. I just think, to me, that's impressive that his family sticks with him. And I just think if he was as bad as the media's making him out, that wouldn't be the case.
JS [00:40:27] So you mentioned that the president perhaps uses fake news or it's the appearance that maybe he uses fake news to enable him to focus on doing other things. But you also just mentioned the media. Where do you think um fake news comes from? Or is fake news generated by the media, is fake news presented by organizations? I guess what's the what's the source for fake news?
CA [00:40:51] Well, okay. Recently uh there was a deal. What was that? Okay recently uh William Barr. He made a statement and uh Chuck Todd on the morning show. I didn't watch it, but Chuck Todd on the morning show edited what William Barr said. So it made it sound like William Barr was saying one thing that he didn't say because he didn't he didn't say the whole the whole interview the whole statement that he had made.
JS [00:41:36] So taking something out of context and presenting it as complete?
CA [00:41:40] As complete and it's not complete. And and I think that happens a lot. I think that's why I kind of touched on the idea that it's it's fake there's an element of truth to it. And that's that's always what makes um the whole problem with this fake news, that there's an element of truth to it. But it's not the whole truth and um you know it's.
JS [00:42:11] What about you, Loren? Where where do you think fake news, where you think it has its origins?
LA [00:42:15] Oh, I think it's uh agenda driven. It um I think the the people behind the news organizations are well yeah obviously they're pretty left leaning and they they uh when I just see I can't ever remember when one of the news outfits really had something good to say about Trump and I that's that's not the case. I mean, you might not like him as a person and there's you know, but I think his overall his policies have been really good for the country. That's that's my take. And uh well give the man credit. When Obama was in office, I mean, you never heard nothing. Never. They never slammed him. They never said nothing and today is totally opposite. And I just there's there's uh since since day one that Trump got in the uh in the office they've been on his case, like you wouldn't believe and I I just um
CA [00:43:42] He didn't expect it. He did not expect he thought that once he was inaugurated after about a month, that things would settle out, that they would the country would see that he wanted to get jobs going, that he wanted to get the economy going. It was just as big a shock to him that the media has felt towards him like they have. And then I think he's his own whatever personality has made him just play it and so, you know, um I don't know, it it it would be interesting right now when we've got such big issues and even with the stuff going on uh with the riots, it would be interesting if if really seriously both sides would seriously address the issues and get at what the real problems are instead of hyping this issue or hyping that issue and let's let's get at it, let's let's make it better.
JS [00:44:58] Yeah, some bipartisan cooperation. So when the when the both of you talk about the media in particular, the media's relationship with the president, do you see that as particular media outlets or national news media or is this media from from national to local or is, well I guess, what what does the media mean in that context or who comprises?
CA [00:45:24] For us, the media, the media that okay, you know, cuz certainly conservative talk radio, it's going to be positive, okay. Um but PBS, CBS, they say they are not, but I like to watch them to a certain degree to make sure that I'm not just skewed this direction, but and that's why I don't do the Internet. So I'm not going to get really out there and listen to somebody I trust for the reasons that I trust him. And and then I'm going to watch these other people and hope that they would be a little fair. And that's how I see it.
JS [00:46:16] All right. So, Loren, you mentioned before that uh the media tends to be very leftward leaning and tends to have an agenda behind it.
LA [00:46:26] For the most part.
JS [00:46:27] So, again, the question is, is that national news media? Television and print?
LA [00:46:35] Yeah. For, I suppose, for the most part, yeah. You know, the little local news, yeah I can't say that about them. No, they're they're they're pretty straight shooters.
CA [00:46:47] We watch um there's three young people or yeah they're young to us that we watch on CBS in the morning before the national news comes on. And they're just nice people. I mean, I couldn't honestly tell you whether they're right leaning, left leaning or what. Um the other person we listen to is a fellow that comes on before Rush does, Aaron Flint and he is a great guy. He was uh in the National Guard and in Afghanistan at least once, maybe twice. And um he's just he's just a good guy. I mean, I've heard others.
LA [00:47:32] Very knowledgeable.
CA [00:47:33] Very knowledgeable. And um and and he he he gives us some of our local news and has local callers that call in to show.
JS [00:47:43] Great. Uh so thank you both for talking about information trustworthiness (laughter) and fake news. That's very informative. Uh now I'd like to talk about decisions to share information. So um how do you share news information? Do you listen to something or read something and think, oh, I should share this with so-and-so? Or do you share a lot of news? And if so, how? Really?
LA [00:48:10] Not really.
CA [00:48:11] No, not really. Because for the most part we like to we don't um well we don't interact with that many people, you know that and um and for the most part, we don't always feel like everybody sees things the way we do, and that's fine. We're we're we uh the people that don't agree with me I pray for (laughter). And so that's that but and we have them all scattered through our family. And so and we I don't care to have discussions with people that get um make people feel uncomfortable or I'm, you know, so we don't we really don't.
JS [00:49:07] So in order to avoid confrontation or conflict?
CA [00:49:11] We just don't we know each other and for the most part and um yeah I don't know if he talks politics with anybody at the corner.
LA [00:49:30] Somewhat, but not I dunno, sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
CA [00:49:31] And so um, you know, um talk to um Kid Todd a little bit about it and Milo maybe a little bit about it, but not not, but they they see things the same same way I do so then there's no confrontation.
JS [00:49:48] So if you're going to share something with someone, uh it'll almost always be with someone who you assume is going to have the same perspective?
CA [00:49:56] Same view, yes.
JS [00:50:00] Um so speaking about how people do or don't share information, do you think people in Montana share information in different ways or different bits of information or different methods of sharing than people in other parts of the country? Are Montanans unique in how they share or don't share information?
CA [00:50:18] I think we're unique. But I don't know.
JS [00:50:21] The two of you?
CA [00:50:21] Yeah, we are unique. But I don't know about other people, you know. You know us Justin and we don't get out much. They don't let us out much (laughter) so we don't really know how other people um get their news or how they share it. Yeah.
JS [00:50:43] Fair enough.
LA [00:50:43] You know, there are people in our age bracket and that kind of stuff um, but it's we're not we're not alone.
JS [00:50:53] Not alone in terms of not sharing a lot of information?
LA [00:50:58] Yeah.
JS [00:50:58] Yeah so what about let's hypothetically, let's say Loren reads an article in a newspaper that he finds really fascinating. Will you tell Charlon about that?
LA [00:51:09] Oh yeah.
JS [00:51:09] Will you tell her straight away? Or will you leave her a note? Or?
LA [00:51:15] No, I bring it to her attention. Yeah, let her read it.
JS [00:51:20] So a little bit sharing of information within the house or maybe with a neighbor?
CA [00:51:26] Yeah.
JS [00:51:27] And that's mostly done face-to-face, then right?
LA [00:51:30] Right. Right. Yeah.
JS [00:51:32] Great.
CA [00:51:34] No smart.
JS [00:51:35] No smart phones? (laughter)
CA [00:51:35] Yeah.
JS [00:51:37] Um so we've talked a lot about uh sort of long term practices or processes, but I want to focus a little bit on the last couple of months and Coronavirus. Um so obviously this is something the entire world has been dealing with and it really took hold in Montana in the early part of March, right. And changed the way that people moved around and the way businesses operated and um, you know, how we get our groceries and do our shopping and all that kind of stuff. And just wondering, since early March, when Coronavirus really took hold in Montana, did you find yourselves uh consuming more news and information, less about the same?
LA [00:52:19] A little bit more.
CA [00:52:19] Initially more um and then it it uh kind of tapered off.
JS [00:52:29] Yeah. The tapering off is due to fatigue about hearing about it or overwhelmedness?
LA [00:52:36] Fatigue.
CA [00:52:38] That and the fact that uh it uh it seemed to stabilize. You know, if it had kept now now we're looking at maybe is it as we've reopened, is it is it going to change? The fellow that actually predicted that the models that it was going to be so terrible bad has gone has come back and said that it didn't help to shut down like we did, which is strange. And I don't know if it helped or not. I mean, it's hard to know. And I guess the acid test is going to be with these riots and these people all grouped together. Is there going to be an uptick in these cities where these riots are the biggest and are protests, if you will? Is that is that going to change the complexion of things? It's going to be interesting to see what happens now in New York City as as Cuomo opens that up a little bit. And so um so I don't know. It does it seems to be staying the same in Montana as we watch the evening news, the numbers have not changed significantly. Still two in the hospital, uh 18 that died, under 500 that and so uh you just it and it just causes you to say, 'Okay, this is where we're at. This is this is the level we reached' and uh yeah.
JS [00:54:08] So that's my next question. Have you been getting your news about Coronavirus from the same sources that you get your other news, or have you been reading or watching anything specifically to get news about Coronavirus?
CA [00:54:21] I, don't you think we just get it from the local news?
LA [00:54:26] Yeah, yeah pretty much.
CA [00:54:26] And the paper the newspaper and uh and the local news. Nothing on the Internet (laughter).
JS [00:54:38] Understandable. Uh so uh just real quickly, could you, you can do this independently, you can do it together, what what's your understanding of Coronavirus?
LA [00:54:51] Oh golly. Well, it's it's it's a virus uh you don't, uh at our age, you we we sure don't want to get it, but I think we've been very fortunate to live where we and that's helped a bundle. Uh and I don't know, sometimes, one day I think, well, they're man they're going way overboard with this thing around here. With all the shutdown, what have you. And then you read or hear something about other places well maybe, maybe it is the right way to go, but I yeah, I don't know. It uh I think there's been in certain areas anyway that the deaths that have been reported, they're reported as as Covid deaths, but I don't think that they necessarily were all Covid deaths.
CA [00:56:03] And it gets back into that fake news. I think this virus is is bad. I don't think it's um the thing that makes this virus bad is it seems to be very contagious. And uh I mean, we are we have viruses all the time, but this virus seems to be unusually contagious. And I think that's the thing that that um I can get complacent about it and then you hear a story and say, oh, it kinda wakes you up a little then. And so uh that's that's what I see, is that it does seem to be very contagious. And and um, you know, we live with viruses. We live with the flu. We live with all these illnesses, but this this virus seems to to have a a twist to it that and yeah maybe we're uh we heard that back in the Spanish flu when President Wilson gave a message, he never even mentioned the flu that was going on in the country at the time because they were occupied with World War One. And that was so big and so awful and that was a devastating flu and it was not even mentioned. And so so then you wonder, are we making too big a deal of this?
JS [00:57:38] Well, uh.
CA [00:57:39] That was an earful, wasn't it? (Laughter).
JS [00:57:41] No, it's always it's always good to hear uh from the two of you. So I want to thank you both very much for taking time to chat with me. It's been as always uh it's been informative.
LA [00:57:52] And we just hope you want to come back (laughter).
JS [00:57:55] Yeah, of course. Always. Always.